NOTE TO computerconsultantsforum.com and forums.techcareerfubar.com USERS: This is the same site. Your login will work here. Use the "forgot password" function if you need help recovering your password.

Obvious fact: You're not logged in.

Therefore, you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg of great discussion threads on this site.

Get rid of this big black message box by joining here: http://mature-it.pro/register/

Who We Are: A collection of IT, engineering and sciences professionals, in a variety of current circumstances with a variety of career backgrounds. Including System admins, Developers and programmers, Freelancers and "gig" entrepreneurs, Contract, job shopping and FTE-employed contract house IT workers, Web developers, Inventors, and artists and writers with tech backgrounds.

We're smarter than the hive mind you've experienced on large tech discussion forums and groups. So register on the board - your email is NEVER sold or provided to third parties. Then LOGIN FREQUENTLY to see new stuff daily.

Join by Registering here: http://mature-it.pro/register/

Author Topic: VeraCrypt again  (Read 567 times)

unix

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 4296
VeraCrypt again
« on: November 01, 2018, 05:40:57 pm »
So VeraCrypt recently released a new version that now supports UEFI machines such as mine.
I thought great, now finally I can install the damn thing and use it.  I must be a slow learner because last year it almost wiped out the entire computer, where the primary drive crashed and the clone I made had issues with the headers where the keys were kept. And I got stuck with one drive physically down and the other drive encrypted.
Took me a week to recover the data and that was the longest week of my life.  I had a thread open on that but that's another story I suppose.

Quote
The format of file-hosted volumes is identical to the format of partition/device-hosted volumes (however, the "volume header", or key data, for a system partition/drive is stored in the last 512 bytes of the first logical drive track). VeraCrypt volumes have no "signature" or ID strings. Until decrypted, they appear to consist solely of random data.


In my UEFI Windows 10 machine I use bcdboot / bcdedit to update the firmware entries in the device’s NVRAM to create multiple boot entries pointing to various disks. I use Macrium Reflect to clone the primary boot disk so theoretically I can have 4 different operating systems installed on 4 separate SSDs. Including Linux.

I installed the  latest-greatest version of VC (That stands for VeraCrypt not Viet Cong) on the secondary boot drive, thinking that VC would not modify the firmware entries in the NVRAM. The entries that are displayed when the machine is turned on, giving you a chance to select which disk you will boot off. It goes to the primary boot by default or you can scroll down to make another selection.

After the install of VeraCrypt and chosing encrypt the entire drive option (which I ran on the second boot drive, not primary) I rebooted and to my surprise, the firmware entries disappeared, and then the prompt for the password appeared. How is that possible if I never told it to do anything with the primary boot drive or the firmware entries? If I want to encrypt drive C:, I never want to encrypt for example drive X. The answer is, VC installed on the clone drive started managing the  BIOS entries. I think part of the problem was, VC was ran on the clone drive but BIOS pointed to another drive. I panicked and swapped SSDs, clone and primary thinking that by default the bootloader will point to the primary disk which didn't have the decryption keys VC needed to unlock the disk, the secondary disk did.
That did not work either.

Maybe this explains why the password would not be accepted. Since it was a test of encryption and none was actually performed, I was able to go back but that greatly worried me. I have no idea why the password just would not get accepted. Most importantly, I do not want to lose the multiple boot capability, I want to chose which disk I boot into. That's the whole point.

Anyway, my faith in this program is not zero, it's minus 5.

VeraCrypt replaces your Windows bootloader with its own bootloader that is encrypted and will decrypt when you give it the password. If that bootloader is damaged your data is gone. VC does suggest you make a rescue disk for that reason.  But if you have no rescue disk, you're really screwed. Your password decrypts your master key which is in the bootloader and on your rescue disk and used to decrypt the entire drive. If the master key is damaged *and* you cannot recover it, you can no longer decode your drive.

To sum up my mental notes:
  • VC is a terrible hack that now claims to manage UEFI machines but still cannot manage multiple boot entries and is very likely to brick your machine.  This is unacceptable as having the primary/clone architecture is central to my backup/recovery process.
    There are tons of docs and they are clear as mud and full if if clauses. Bottom line, it does not work for my specific machine which is not uncommon at all.
  • Total disk encryption is dangerous as hell and should only be done on some test box you don't need and have nothing important on it.
  • You are far more likely to do damage to yourself with this dangerous hack than some other person/group/government/criminals. Which defeats the purpose of having this software.  Before you install it, shred the disks and throw your machine under a train on a railroad  track and then walk away with a modicum of satisfaction, at least you won't suffer any aggravation trying to decrypt your machine when it self-bricks due to VC.

In short, don't use VC.  I think it has limited use for file encryption but even then gpg or some PGP-derived public-private key encryption tool works much better and faster, especially on Linux. You can use symmetric  encryption with no public keys involved.



Quote
VeraCrypt is now compatible with default EFI SecureBoot configuration for system encryption.
Fix EFI system encryption issues on some machines (e.g. HP, Acer).
Support EFI system encryption on Windows LTSB.
Add compatibility of system encryption with Windows 10 upgrade using ReflectDrivers mechanism
Make EFI Rescue Disk decrypt partition correctly when Windows Repair overwrites first partition sector.
Add Driver option in the UI to explicitly allow Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 defragmenter to see VeraCrypt encrypted disks.
Add internal verification of binaries embedded signature to protect against some types to tampering attacks.
Fix Secure Desktop not working for favorites set to mount at logon on Windows 10 under some circumstances.
when Secure Desktop is enabled, use it for Mount Options dialog if it is displayed before password dialog.
when extracting files in Setup or Portable mode, decompress zip files docs.zip and Languages.zip in order to have ready to use configuration.
Display a balloon tip warning message when text pasted to password field is longer than maximum length and so it will be truncated.
Implement language selection mechanism at the start of the installer to make easier for international users.
Add check on size of file container during creation to ensure it's smaller than available free disk space.
Fix buttons at the bottom not shown when user sets a large system font under Window 7.
Fix compatibility issues with some disk drivers that don't support IOCTL_DISK_GET_DRIVE_GEOMETRY_EX ioctl.
Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.

G0ddard B0lt

  • I absolutely DESPISE improvised sulfur-charcoal-salt peter cannons made out of hollow tree branches filled with diamonds as projectiles.
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 22672
  • Gorn Classic, user of Gornix
Re: VeraCrypt again
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2018, 06:58:04 pm »
Quote
VeraCrypt replaces your Windows bootloader with its own bootloader that is encrypted and will decrypt when you give it the password. If that bootloader is damaged your data is gone. VC does suggest you make a rescue disk for that reason.  But if you have no rescue disk, you're really screwed. Your password decrypts your master key which is in the bootloader and on your rescue disk and used to decrypt the entire drive. If the master key is damaged *and* you cannot recover it, you can no longer decode your drive.

Ok, you launched right into this without a backgrounder. What are you trying to do with Veracrypt AND it is *not* obvious what that is?

From your comments I lifted it sounds like you're attempting to put a bootable Windows C:\ drive on a Veracrypt encrypted volume?

Pardon my saying this but that sounds like all kinds of stupid for giving yourself a deathmarch. Better to leave your OS as plain data and encrypt data volumes.
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.

unix

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 4296
Re: VeraCrypt again
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2018, 07:32:44 pm »
You are right. I painfully arrived at that conclusion. Kinda in reverse. I did encrypt a volume for a while and then decided to try full disk encryption which is a disaster waiting to happen.
Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.

G0ddard B0lt

  • I absolutely DESPISE improvised sulfur-charcoal-salt peter cannons made out of hollow tree branches filled with diamonds as projectiles.
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 22672
  • Gorn Classic, user of Gornix
Re: VeraCrypt again
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2018, 08:28:09 pm »
Yeah, I have absolutely no idea why you'd do this unless it's just to prove that it can be done. For a day to day system, just no.
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.

unix

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 4296
Re: VeraCrypt again
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2018, 05:44:26 am »
Pretty much
Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.

Richardk

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise Sage
  • *****
  • Posts: 4278
Re: VeraCrypt again
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2018, 02:38:19 pm »
And again how much of your stuff really needs encryption? It might be a little inconvenient but instead of encrypting the entire data volume maybe create separate containers on a data drive? At least if one container goes bad you hopefully still have the others intact.

unix

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 4296
Re: VeraCrypt again
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2018, 03:39:33 pm »

That is the smart thing to do. I created one container for now, on its own separate SSD and both boot drives can access it. 

I am still in search of something better. This product I think is somehow half-baked when it comes to securing the operating system. Kinda of a rhetorical question but is there any product at all out there that can encrypt the entire machine or do you risk hosing it?
I think I will just classify it as another stupid idea and stop pursuing it.

I was mainly doing this in case I ever did any international travel. I heard stories that if you ever go to Eastern Europe, the SOP used to be the hotel people had to contact the Secret Police and inform them there were foreigners staying at the hotel, who would then arrive and while you were gone, clone your phone and the laptop.  So basically you cannot leave your equipment out of sight at all, not for a nano-second. Or encrypt it but that's even riskier it seems.


Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.

Richardk

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise Sage
  • *****
  • Posts: 4278
Re: VeraCrypt again
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2018, 08:16:42 pm »
TrueCrypt talked about plausible deniability but I think that is out of scope for VeraCrypt. I guess leave your secret stuff at home or download it, once at your final destination?

unix

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 4296
Re: VeraCrypt again
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2018, 03:50:13 am »
VeraCrypt has all that, they enhanced on TrueCrypt but I fear their support department is non-existent, they are basically a 2-men show, in case things screw up, dont expect any support. It's a freeware.
Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.

Richardk

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise Sage
  • *****
  • Posts: 4278
Re: VeraCrypt again
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2018, 06:23:50 pm »
That's unfortunate also The Gorn mentioned a nice feature with Cryptkeeper in that everything stands-alone as a file as opposed to something like VeraCrypt using a container. I like the container idea but as he pointed out if something goes wrong, you will likely lose everything in the container. Granted separate files for everything isn't as "tidy" but it seems to offer a better level of protection against data corruption. I'm sure that from an encryption point of view, there are pros and cons to this strategy as well.

G0ddard B0lt

  • I absolutely DESPISE improvised sulfur-charcoal-salt peter cannons made out of hollow tree branches filled with diamonds as projectiles.
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 22672
  • Gorn Classic, user of Gornix
Re: VeraCrypt again
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2018, 07:28:25 pm »
One advantage of the container concept is that a Truecrypt/Veracrypt volume can contain a hidden volume. You can do this, for example, to circumvent someone such as police or customs forcing you to reveal your password to an encrypted volume. You can unlock the outer well known volume but there is no sign that there is a hidden inner volume with its own password.

One slight disadvantage of Cryptkeeper is that the encrypted individual files contain the last actual time stamps of the activity on the corresponding unlocked file. That could be useful in forensics.
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.

unix

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 4296
Re: VeraCrypt again
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2018, 07:57:57 pm »

I could not download the latest version of Cryptkeeper, the download site says it's 'abandoned' since 2016. is that so?
Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.

Richardk

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise Sage
  • *****
  • Posts: 4278
Re: VeraCrypt again
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2018, 09:03:49 pm »
Well, Cryptkeeper Has Universal Password of 'p'. I think it has disappeared but I don't see why they just didn't fix the problem?

G0ddard B0lt

  • I absolutely DESPISE improvised sulfur-charcoal-salt peter cannons made out of hollow tree branches filled with diamonds as projectiles.
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 22672
  • Gorn Classic, user of Gornix
Re: VeraCrypt again
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2018, 09:28:14 pm »
I just tried p and it didn't unlock the volume.
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.

unix

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 4296
Re: VeraCrypt again
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2018, 03:50:19 am »
I have actually used VeraCrypt volumes  with success but I replicate them. It's the full system encryption that worries me. If one volume gets damaged, there is a backup and they are encrypted with different keys.

Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.