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Author Topic: Anyone Here Installed IP Cameras?  (Read 285 times)

ilconsiglliere

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Anyone Here Installed IP Cameras?
« on: August 28, 2018, 07:03:31 am »
I started looking at putting in some kind of home security because of issues where some of my family members live. I started looking at a doorbell cameras specifically one made by this company named Ring. After doing a lot of reading it appears to have issues. Doorbells are uncomplicated things involving a 12v power supply, the chime and the doorbell switch itself. Its basic - the switch is on/off. No electronics, no nonsense.

Anyway with this Ring thing you hook your existing wiring to the switch, put in this thing on your chime and its supposed to work.

https://www.amazon.com/Ring-Doorbell-existing-doorbell-required/dp/B01DM6BDA4

If you read the comments - lots of unhappy campers. Never mind all the glowing reviews, we all know how that goes. I like to read the negative reviews. It seems to me its overly complicated and a lot of $$.

So than I moved on to plain security systems. I looked at Nest, Arlo by Netgear and Circle by Logitech. All involving a lot of $$. All are either wired/wireless and some require batteries or a power supply. Lots of grief of it again.

So than I moved on to plain IP cameras with a NVR (Network video recorder - it replaces a DVR and is either a dedicated device or you use a NAS that has built in software).

I would prefer to use the NAS solution by Synology. I have a Synology NAS already and this thing is AWESOME. No fuss, no muss - no MS Windows. It runs their own version of Linux and its literally plug and play. Anyway Synology comes with something called Synology Surveilance Station. Its software to control IP cameras as part of the OS.

https://www.neowin.net/news/review-of-synologys-surveillance-station-a-free-ip-camera-tool-for-synology-nas-devices/

You just have to pick out IP cameras that are compatible and per Synology something like 5000 cameras are compatible with it.

The IP cameras themselves come in 2 flavors - network cable and power supply or POE (Power Over Ethernet). I am leaning toward the POE as I only have to run POE ethernet cable instead of ethernet and a power supply. I have run lots of wire myself in my house so it not a big deal to do it.

So I was wondering if anyone has done this?
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G0ddard B0lt

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Re: Anyone Here Installed IP Cameras?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2018, 07:22:30 am »
Basically, you have gravitated to a standards-compliant "open architecture" solution. I like this the best.

The cameras such as Ring, and also there is an entire crop of dedicated vendor specific security thingies like Ring, some with multiple purposes... all of em demand that you subscribe to the vendor's monitoring services, and they keep your videos on the cloud.

I just don't like devices that anchor you to a vendor forever for subscription payments for something that you don't use consistently. These devices generally don't even HAVE a "generic webcam" setting that lets you monitor the stream locally. You connect it to the vendor, period.

POE is the best approach for the reason you stated and that's why it exists. I don't think there is special POE cable - the standard CAT6 or CAT5 works fine.  In the event of a power failure you can have the switch or hub the cameras are plugged into on a battery backup, so all cameras continue to receive power. Without POE, every station needs its own backup.

I think you're on the right track. I wouldn't bother with Ring, Nest, etc. because of the vendor lock-in.
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G0ddard B0lt

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Re: Anyone Here Installed IP Cameras?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2018, 07:25:54 am »
Oh, there is a third option for connectivity: cameras powered independently but using Wifi.

Ring and Nest and other big brands certainly do this as their default mode of operation.

So there's physical one connection per camera, except it's power, with all that entails. Power goes out? It would be reasonable to have some onboard battery backup. Otherwise that's one point of failure.
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ilconsiglliere

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Re: Anyone Here Installed IP Cameras?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2018, 09:03:22 am »
Quote from: The Gorn on August 28, 2018, 07:22:30 am
Basically, you have gravitated to a standards-compliant "open architecture" solution. I like this the best.

The cameras such as Ring, and also there is an entire crop of dedicated vendor specific security thingies like Ring, some with multiple purposes... all of em demand that you subscribe to the vendor's monitoring services, and they keep your videos on the cloud.

I just don't like devices that anchor you to a vendor forever for subscription payments for something that you don't use consistently. These devices generally don't even HAVE a "generic webcam" setting that lets you monitor the stream locally. You connect it to the vendor, period.

POE is the best approach for the reason you stated and that's why it exists. I don't think there is special POE cable - the standard CAT6 or CAT5 works fine.  In the event of a power failure you can have the switch or hub the cameras are plugged into on a battery backup, so all cameras continue to receive power. Without POE, every station needs its own backup.

I think you're on the right track. I wouldn't bother with Ring, Nest, etc. because of the vendor lock-in.

Exactly about the open standards. I didnt even realize till last week there was an open standard towards security. These Ring and Nest things are a total rip off IMO. There is lots and lots of problems with these Nest thermostats. Thanks but I will stick with digital Honeywell. No I cant control it remotely but I dont care.

I agree with your assessment about the subscription and proprietary stuff. I dont want anything that I have to pay a monthly recurring cost. I already pay to much every month that I have no choice starting with the stupid cell phone and cable.

I also dont want jack in the cloud. You can keep your cloud.

As for the proprietary stuff, we already endure way to much of this via Microsoft, Apple and the telcos. No thanks.

I am in the process of putting Cat6 through my entire house. So to put in a little more for cameras is not a big deal. I want it in all the bedrooms and any of the rooms where there is a TV. Here is the reality - wireless is pretty good but its still not a wire.

My brother thinks I am insane dragging Cat6 through the house. I found an easy way to get it to the attic - I have a stack that is in the wall that goes from the basement to the roof. The previous owners already had put tons of coax in there so I have ready made pulling lines. I am also putting new coax through the house with the ethernet.

I have done quite a bit of reading about the POE and I think its a brilliant idea. You just have to buy POE switches and they are dirt cheap - just uses standard ethernet cable. Nothing fancy.

https://community.fs.com/blog/how-to-choose-cables-for-power-over-ethernet.html

https://www.networkworld.com/article/2323509/data-center/power-over-ethernet--one-cable-fits-all.html

I have been reading about these IP cameras and they have obsoleted the traditional cameras which usually have coax and a power supply along with a NVR with the software in it. The beauty of this with Synology is the software is already there. QNAP which is another NAS fendor also has camera software in their NAS.
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Richardk

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Re: Anyone Here Installed IP Cameras?
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2018, 07:49:08 pm »
I really need to read up on this but yes, I have. Years ago. Today's camera's are truly something else.

We used a camera that you could either plug into the router via a cable or you could go wireless and you treated it like a web server. You had an IP, you logged in and off you went. You could also set the options and security levels for each user you created. The camera had limited digital zoom and you could move the lens. Something like 100 degrees horizontally and 50 degrees vertically. It also had motion detection and a limited set of options on what to do. It could also email you snapshots of the motion.

Also you had options to make it accessible on the Internet. All without paying a dime. Though for those less technically able, you had options as well.

I can't imagine buying a service were you pay to access your cameras. Unless I was getting something for it like cloud storage of video. I'm sure today's cameras offer way more.

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G0ddard B0lt

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Re: Anyone Here Installed IP Cameras?
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2018, 08:11:07 pm »
I can think of a zillion reasons why vendors like Ring and Nest have gone to the dedicated, appliance like, cloud based architecture. But two prevail:


- Profitable lock-in. A camera that only talks to a paid cloud account is exactly like selling a razor at a loss so that you sell the blades forever. Except these things are hardly sold at a loss.


- MUCH LESS customer support. You don't have to coach end lusers through network configuration, firewalls, opening ports, etc. While the functions are a lot more complicated internally than an old fashioned IP camera, they're more productized and opaque to the normie purchasers.
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About those Nest security cameras
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2018, 07:25:22 am »
https://fox4kc.com/2018/10/31/family-traumatized-after-home-monitoring-system-hacked-by-stranger/

Quote
LONG ISLAND, N.Y. -- A mother in Long Island says a stranger hacked her family’s Nest camera and tried having a conversation with her five-year-old son, according to WPIX.

Nest ads will show you beautiful images of mother nature captured on their outdoor cameras, life’s silly moments and even those moments when your child is up to no good.  But for this Long Island mother, the Nest cam she and her husband set up around their home to act as a nanny cam became a full-on nightmare.

“My son came running out of the playroom and found me in the kitchen and said 'it’s not daddy talking to me. It’s not daddy.'”

Quote
As for Nest?  She was simply told to change her password and switch to a two-factor verification when logging on, but for this mom it’s not enough. She wants to speak out to warn others about this potential danger lurking in their home.

A Nest spokesperson responded to our request for comment and issued this statement:

"We have seen instances where a small number of Nest customers have re-used passwords that were previously exposed through breaches on other websites, and made public. None of these breaches involved Nest. This exposes these customers to other people using the credentials to log into their Nest account.

Actually Nest's response sounds reasonable. Lately I've been updating certain passwords on some sites where I was incredibly lazy and just kept assigning the same password to different accounts.

I have actually gotten some "ransom" Bitcoin emails from someone who sends me a really old password I used a lot about 10+ years ago. The ransom requests are laughable but I take the threat of password re-use seriously.
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ilconsiglliere

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Re: About those Nest security cameras
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2018, 08:59:08 am »
Quote from: The Gorn on November 01, 2018, 07:25:22 am
https://fox4kc.com/2018/10/31/family-traumatized-after-home-monitoring-system-hacked-by-stranger/

Quote
LONG ISLAND, N.Y. -- A mother in Long Island says a stranger hacked her family’s Nest camera and tried having a conversation with her five-year-old son, according to WPIX.

Nest ads will show you beautiful images of mother nature captured on their outdoor cameras, life’s silly moments and even those moments when your child is up to no good.  But for this Long Island mother, the Nest cam she and her husband set up around their home to act as a nanny cam became a full-on nightmare.

“My son came running out of the playroom and found me in the kitchen and said 'it’s not daddy talking to me. It’s not daddy.'”

Quote
As for Nest?  She was simply told to change her password and switch to a two-factor verification when logging on, but for this mom it’s not enough. She wants to speak out to warn others about this potential danger lurking in their home.

A Nest spokesperson responded to our request for comment and issued this statement:

"We have seen instances where a small number of Nest customers have re-used passwords that were previously exposed through breaches on other websites, and made public. None of these breaches involved Nest. This exposes these customers to other people using the credentials to log into their Nest account.

Actually Nest's response sounds reasonable. Lately I've been updating certain passwords on some sites where I was incredibly lazy and just kept assigning the same password to different accounts.

I have actually gotten some "ransom" Bitcoin emails from someone who sends me a really old password I used a lot about 10+ years ago. The ransom requests are laughable but I take the threat of password re-use seriously.

I have been changing passwords for a while because of this as I had the same experiences. Now I try to have a unique one on every account. Its such a freaking hassle though which is why I use KeePassX. Have it on my PC, my Mac and my phone. Same key file in all places.
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